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This episode and the following transcript were originally published by Stand Together Foundation.

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A caution to listeners: This episode contains stories of addiction, sexual abuse, domestic violence, and thoughts of suicide.

Ty Spells

Hello, I’m Ty Spells, and today I have the pleasure of introducing you to Dorris Walker-Taylor. Dorris’s story of overcoming addiction, prostitution and life on the street, and the way she is now able to radiate light and hope into any room she walks into, will inspire you.

Without further delay, I introduce you to author, wife, mother, and senior ambassador for Thistle Farms, Dorris Walker-Taylor.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Thank you so much, Ty. It is a pleasure to be here. How are you doing?

Ty Spells

I’m good. So, I genuinely want to know, how are you doing today?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Today? I’m doing good. Not every day, but today I would say I am doing absolutely amazing. As a matter of fact, because I’m alive and I’m here, and I feel myself being alive. And so, for a long time I just couldn’t do that. So, any day that I can wake up, and just be aware that I’m breathing and I’m alive. I still have the stress, the bills, the this, the that, but I’m alive. And that’s a good thing in my life, coming from where I came from, it’s an amazing feeling.

Ty Spells

Oh, I really appreciate you saying that. And it reminds me, I was on Instagram wasting time yesterday and I saw this reel. And she said, “Every day that I wake up I know my work’s not done.” And so, I love how you said that you feel alive, and that’s wonderful.

Well, like you’ve just shared, understanding that it wasn’t always like that, where you didn’t always feel alive. You look amazing today, you look so put together. Your nails are done, wonderful, beautiful dress. Just everything about you radiates light, and hope. But, I know that wasn’t always the case. Can you share what was life like before that?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Absolutely. So, that’s an understatement, life was not good for me for almost three decades. I’m talking about a long time, for 26 long, miserable years I was existing and not living. Even my appearance, my appearance stayed the same, somewhat I thought. But, it was just like I was not living, I was just holding on. Just holding on, because I was in my addiction, and I was on the street, and I was really tired and really broken. And if I lived through the day, I was just grateful in the beginning that I made it. And then, it was like, “When is all of this going to end?” And it wasn’t like I was hoping for something better. I was ready to just throw in the towel, because it had gotten that bad at one time in my life.

Ty Spells

I know that you had that, that you were navigating for several decades. But then, I do want to come back to that, but could you share with me the importance of November 9th, 2009?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Absolutely. So, on Monday morning, November the 9th, 2009, I got my life back. And I say that because that was a day that it was almost like the calm after the storm. When there was a storm, and everything is going, and trees are moving and it’s really hectic in life. And then, it was like everything in my life slowed down. That was the day that I came into the Thistle Farms community. That was the day when I started my journey of learning how to live life on life’s terms without the use of drugs and alcohol. November the 9th was the day that I had prayed for, for so long. It was hard, growing up in a household where I was taught that prayer is the most powerful tool that we possessed. And then, to be so high and so inebriated that I couldn’t form a prayer.

But, I can remember walking down the streets of Nashville, and I would just recite the 23rd Psalm. Because, I knew with everything in me that “the Lord is my shepherd, and I shall not want.” And I would just cry out, and I would just pray that he would please come and get me. So, my life was full of going to jail, and getting out of jail. And it was a vicious cycle. And for the life of me, I could not figure out how to get my life back.

So, there’s a quick story I want to tell you about going to jail. I like to make the analogy of Thistle Farms versus jail, because when I would go to jail, the first thing they would do would take my clothes from me and give me this ugly orange jumpsuit. That was a problem, because I love my clothes.

That was a problem. And then, they would talk to me in a manner that made me feel worse about myself. They would tell me when to eat, what to eat, and it was just horrible. But, when I came into Thistle Farms, they told me to dream, and dream big—and it made such amazing difference in my life.

So on that day, before November the 9th got here, I was in jail and I was sitting there with my head down. And my spirit was low, and I had just about lost my will to live. And I had a friend on the street named Regina, and she had just disappeared. And I thought Regina was dead, because our lives did not hold any value on the street. So, I’m sitting there in jail again, with my head down, and I looked up and across the room I thought, “Is that Regina?”

And it was, but she wasn’t there as an inmate. Regina was there to bring a word of hope. She was one of the first five women to come into Thistle Farms. And when I saw Regina, she was standing there, and she was glowing from the inside out. And she looked at me as close as they would allow her to get to me. And she said, “Dorris, guess what? I got my life back.” I’m like, “How did you do that?” She said, “I found this program.” And I’m like, “No, I can’t do any more programs.” I had done so many 30-day programs, but what is 30 days going to do for me when I’ve now been addicted the vast majority of my life?

She said, “No, Dorris, this program is designed for women just like us. This program is designed to help women who are survivors of human trafficking, prostitution, addiction and abuse.” And as sad as that sounds, that was the first time that I had qualified for anything in my life in such a very long time.

So, she gave me the number, and she was the one that got me into Thistle Farms. So as I’ve said, on Monday morning, November the 9th, 2009, I came into the Thistle Farms community. And when I got there, I didn’t know what to expect. I thought they were going to judge me. I just knew I was going to walk in the room, and they were going to be like, “Okay, Dorris, what have you been doing?” But they didn’t, they asked me a very profound question. They asked, “Dorris, what happened to you?” So, from that very first day I was there, I realized that my life was a product of all the stuff that had happened to me in my life. And it had manifested itself into an addiction, because I was a witness to my father’s murder at the age of 12.

Not knowing what to do with that, I put on a mask and I used drugs. At first, it was marijuana, I didn’t realize that marijuana was a gateway drug. But, when I would smoke marijuana as a 13 year old, I felt better about myself. I felt life is not so bad, and I could do these fictitious laughs. But, when that stopped working, I had to do something much stronger. So, I found myself having a full blown cocaine addiction that led me from the little town of White House, Tennessee, all the way into Nashville. And when I got to Nashville, boom, that is when I began to live a truly inhumane lifestyle. So, on November the 9th, I got my life back. And I came into the program, and I learned how to feel, and I learned how to deal. And I learned that I had self-worth, and I did not know that for a long time. So, that was an amazing day of my life that I would never, ever forget.

Ty Spells

Thank you for sharing. And I know that you have mentioned before, when you walked into Thistle Farms, there was a woman sitting on the sofa. Can you share what did she say to you? And then, what did it feel like? I know Thistle Farms, you said they gave you back your life, and they taught you how to live life again. Will you share with us, what did they do? What did that feel like? How did you navigate that experience?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

When I walked into the Thistle Farms community, first of all, the houses are absolutely beautiful. I’ve heard the founder, the president of Thistle Farms, Becca Stevens, I’ve heard her say countless numbers of times that they build the houses intentionally, lavishly. The high ceilings, the architect built the one of the first houses to resemble a butterfly, which emulates freedom. I walked into that house, and the first person I saw was this girl I had been on the street with. Her name was Sonya, and she was sitting there.

My daughter’s name is Sonya, but this was Sonya from the street. I want to make sure I get that straight. And so, I said, “Hey, Sonya. How is it here?” And she said, “Dorris, some days are better than others, but no matter what you do, just stick and stay.” And when she said those words, it bore a hole in my spirit. And I took her at her word, and I stuck, and I have stayed. I lost my mom three months after I got there, but I stuck with it and I stayed. So now, I tell myself, “As long as you are Black”—and I’m going to be that way until I leave this earth.

Ty Spells

Yes. [Laughs]

Dorris Walker-Taylor

“As long as you are Black, you never have to use again.” So, I know that no matter what happens in life, I’m going to stay clean and I’m going to be sober. Because, I finally learned that if the worst thing in this world happens to me, if I go out and use, it doesn’t make that thing any better. I’ve just compounded the problem, because I’m now back addicted again. So, it’s not an option to use anymore, it’s not an option to take a drink anymore. So, when I came in, Sonya, the other women in the program with me, we bonded.

So, we call ourselves “Sisters for life,” because we find out that our stories are more alike than different. I have a story that will bring you to your knees, but then it will lift you back up, because of the wonderful ending. The part that I’m living now is absolutely amazing, but there are some women there who have stories that are just as bad or just not as good as mine. They’re just their story. Everybody has a story, be it good or bad, we all have stories. So, I walked into that program, I got my life back and I learned how to live. So, it was a very profound thing for me.

Ty Spells

Now, I know you have shared with me in the past that Thistle Farms gave you a job as well as some extra income. What did you do, or what did it feel like for those opportunities to come?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

I had gone without a job for so long that I didn’t think I had anything to offer. I didn’t have any self-worth, I could not go out and find a job. And my problem that I had was the same problem all the other women had. So, in the beginning, the women were staying clean, we were getting our lives back. We were going to court and getting our records expunged, but we were dirt poor. And nobody would hire us, because of our background. So, in the beginning, in 1997, when the residential program was founded, it was just a sanctuary to give us a place to rest. And they would send us to therapy, and they got our teeth fixed. But then, they learned early on that we had to become independent in our finances. So, they opened up the social enterprise, and they gave me a job.

I didn’t even have to apply for it, it was a gift. It was just another wonderful gift that they gave me. And I remember my first job at Thistle Farms in 2010 was to make lip balms. So, I would sit there all day, and I would mix almond oil, and lanolin, and beeswax. And at that time, we didn’t have the manufacturing facility that we have now. So, I would take all these ingredients and put them in a pitcher, and try to pour them in a little tiny tube for a chapstick, for a lip balm. And I thought, “Oh, my God, I’m going to die.” I thought, “How did I get here?” But, I stuck with it and then, I realized we prosper by the work of our hands. So, I didn’t stop, I kept moving forward. And my next job at Thistle Farms was to work in the event’s department.

And that’s where I would pack all the products. And I would send all the products with the women that would go out, and tell their stories, and sell the products. Because, that’s our livelihood, that’s what we do. And then, they made me a director at Thistle Farms. And then, at one point I stopped doing that, and now I’m the senior ambassador. But, I found out that I have a livelihood that is actually offset from every single thing that I’ve gone through in life. And it just boggles my mind that they could take the brokenness that I walked in the room with, and they can build it in to a lifestyle for me, to be able to pay my bills, to be able to talk to my grandchildren. To use it to talk to youth around the United States and let people know that there’s a way out, but there’s also a better way of life, so you never go into it. And I’ve learned all that through Thistle Farms.

Ty Spells

And I know Thistle Farm says, “Love heals.” What does that mean to you in life?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

So, Thistle Farms loved on me until I learned how to love myself. Around Thistle Farms we say, “Love is the most powerful force for change in the world.” So, Thistle Farms loved on me. When I walked into Thistle Farms I had 11 and a half teeth, it was not a good look. And the half tooth was right in front, it was not a good look. But, they sent me to the dentist, and they sent me to therapy. And this was love.

You can just tell me all day that you love me, but if you are doing things for me, and it’s a gift and you’re not making me sell myself in order to pay back what you’ve done for me, then that’s love. So, they healed me through just loving on me. So, because I’m a believer, I called Thistle Farms the vessel that God sent to come get me. And they put me in the beautiful sanctuary, and they took care of me, and they let me rest from all my brokenness. And so for me, love heals means that they love us back to life, they love us until we can love ourselves. And I’ve got to say, I love me now.

Ty Spells

I know that’s right.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

I love me now. Yes, I do. And it’s because I have learned the value that I hold. I hold value now, and I’ve never understood that before.

Ty Spells

And I love how you say, “I hold value now.” Thank you for sharing that. And will you share with us, what was life like before you understood your value?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

It was dark, and everything I touched turned to dirt. There was no value there. I traded myself as though I was some type of a commodity. I would trade myself to get out of the hot blistering heat, and I would trade myself to get out of the cold weather. Everything that was good and decent had been taken from me through my addiction. So my life, it was full of going to jail and getting out of jail, and getting in the car with a stranger. And getting in the wrong car, not that any of them was the right car. But, getting in the wrong car, and being trapped in a cycle of human trafficking. I had no self-worth. And I’m talking about not just for a little while, but from the age of 13 to the age of 54. I’m 66 now, but I’ve spent the vast majority of my life in addiction.

But, by the grace of God and the miracles that he has put in my life, I have done more living in these past 13 years than I did in the first 54. And I hope my math is right. But yeah, so I did, because I’m 66 now. And it’s the difference in day and night, it’s the difference in the left and right. It’s like everything out there was broken. And on this side we’re always going to have trials and tribulations. But on this side, I get to try every day to be a little bit better than I was yesterday. And out there, every day was a horrible day, every day of my life.

Ty Spells

What do you feel contributed to getting you on that path?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

So, first thing I want to say, constant prayer, because I just didn’t give up and hope. Hope is this golden chord from heaven and you just keep pulling at it, and you just keep tugging at it, and you refuse to give up. So, the hope that is now instilled in me, I can look back over my life and I can see that hope was always there. Because, every time I woke up and I went out my door or I woke up off the bench in the park, and I put my feet on the ground, I was still alive. So that, was a little bit of hope instilled me that I didn’t even realize that was there.

Ty Spells

Now, what was childhood like?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

When I first got to Thistle Farms, it amazed me that my background started off so differently. Because, there are some women who come into Thistle Farms, because they were sold into human trafficking at a very early age. And that was not part of my story in the beginning. There are some women who come into our community, because they grew up in homes where addiction was prevalent. And they thought that was an okay way of life, because they didn’t know any better. There were some women who come into our program, because they were touched by a family member or a stranger, and that cycle of molestation started a cycle of trauma in their lives.

I had an absolutely amazing childhood, the youngest in the family. I grew up in a rural area of Tennessee. My mom and my dad were sharecroppers, but my family was poor in the eyes of those who count wealth in amount of money. But, I had a wealth of faith, and a legacy of love in my house. I was poor and didn’t even know it, because everything in my life was happy. And we would sing. And my daddy taught me that music is food for the soul. And I would sing, and he would carry me to church. And I was the baby of the family and I thought life was good. Life was not good, everything in my life crumbled. At the age of 12, a very troubled family member came into our family home, severely injured my mom, shot my father.

And I’m 12 years old, and I’m standing there and I’m looking at this. And my entire life changed that day, I immediately began to live in denial. So, when I say I had an amazing childhood on one hand, 12 years into that amazing childhood, my entire life crumbled. And I went down, and down, and down into the ashes of life. But now, I have come up, and I am the kind of woman now that will continue to rise, and I would never go back into what I came out of. So, life as a child in the beginning was amazing. And then, stuff happens and it manifested itself into a really hard life for me for a very long time.

Ty Spells

Now, knowing that troubled family member came and shot your father, also hurt your mother, and that you were a child outside and you witnessed your father being murdered. How did you navigate that? What did family life look like when it was just you, your siblings and your mother? What did that look like?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Everything changed. Because on that day, I can remember screaming and I ran over to my daddy. And just as I got there, he fell. We were outside in the front yard, he fell, which resulted in me being partially trapped underneath my dying father. So, my legs was underneath him. And this is just a little sidebar, but when I looked down at my feet now I remember that there was blood stains on my shoes. And because my mom became the sole breadwinner, I remember her polishing my shoes. And I was sitting in the classroom, and I looked down, and I could remember and I could see imprints of the blood coming through my shoe. So that, was a horrible way to live as a child.

And it was just that constant throwing of that thing coming back to me, every day I looked down and I would see it. And so, before that day, I was an A+ student. But after that, I began to live in denial. I did not know or understand what family unity was all about. This was my family member that had torn our lives apart. So, I would sit in the classroom, and I was no longer an A+ student, because the instructor would be talking and my mind would wander back to that same scene. So, my grades begin to fall. My mom became the sole breadwinner, and I started hanging out with the cool kids at school. And I remember the first time that I was introduced to marijuana, I smoked it, I inhaled it, I blew it out.

And it’s like I blew out some of the pain that was in me, and I felt, “Hey, life is not so bad.” But, I had no idea that marijuana was a gateway drug. So, when it stopped working, I had to go something a little harder. But, life changed for me, because my mom was no longer at home in the afternoons when I came home. And she had always been a homemaker, so everything in my life just changed. And I can remember that I couldn’t have the same things that other kids had at school, because we were not on that same level anymore. Even though we were poor, now we were just surviving, we just were eating.

And as a treat, we might have ice cream, but there was no more going anywhere and there was no more shopping. So, everything in my life had just condensed itself to being miserable. Just stay alive, but remain miserable. So that, was what I escaped from with the marijuana, was just being miserable. And my mom was hurt. And my mom used to say … She used to dress me up really pretty all the time, because if we dress well and we hold our heads up, we can live this down. And I’m like, “What am I living down? What did I do?” And I couldn’t understand it for the life of me. What did I do? I was just there. But, it was like it had been put on my shoulders to live this thing down. So, I developed this amazing mask, where I looked well, I spoke well. I became a jokester. I told jokes all the time, but I had so much pain on the inside.

Ty Spells

I know we all find ourselves walking in that mask. And I appreciate you recognizing that you were looking good on the outside, but feeling so ugly and not present on the inside. And I want to touch more on that when we come back. So, I look forward to continuing this conversation with my dear friend, Dorris.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Thank you.

Ty Spells

But, we’re going to take a moment and take a break.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Okay, thank you.

[Short Break]

Ty Spells

Dorris, you were sharing with us about, you put on a mask and you were not feeling like you were alive, or that you were just trying to get through. On the outward, you were looking like everything was flourishing or growing, but inside you just felt not yourself or ugly inside. Can you share with us what does it feel like? What does it look like to not feel alive, but you are existing?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Sometimes I feel that’s the American way, because there are so many folks that I have come in contact with that, that do wonderful from nine to five. But, before they get there at nine, they’ve got to make their self do it. And once you leave at five, you’ve got to make yourself live through the night so you can come back the next morning. And that was what I was doing in a totally different lifestyle. But, I knew before I hit the street, my mom told me that I had to look well and act well. And this thing that happened to us had tarnished our family name. So, you’ve got to build yourself up, and smile. So I did, because that’s what I was instructed to do. On the street, I was told by Michael Peoples—he’s no longer with us, so I can say he sold drugs. I wouldn’t say it if he was still alive.

But I can remember Michael told me at one point, “Dorris, you’re actually in a business. You’re trying to sell something, which happens to be yourself. So, you’ve got to make yourself look like you want somebody to stop, and pick you up.” So, for some reason it shifted my perception to, “Am I trading myself as some type of a commodity to get the drug that I need so badly?” But, I was trying to commercialize myself. So then, I would start taking what was my desperate dope money, and I would use it to go into the thrift stores and look for the tea length dresses. And look for the type of material that would move when I would move. And I made sure that I did not wear the short pants, and the baseball caps, and the t-shirt.

I made sure that I looked well, in my mind. Now, I’m on the street, and I’m selling myself. And I’m a hooker, but I’m looking well. And I used to walk the streets all day long in heels, because I wanted people to see me, pick me up and treat me good when you get me in your car, because I look a little different. So, that was always such a burden on what I looked like, irregardless of what I felt like. Even though I was doing unspeakable things in that car, I look well when I got in, and I look well when I got out of that car. But, the truth was you are selling your soul when you’re in that car. So, that was how I lived my life for a long time. And in the light of the day, it sounds like insanity. And that’s exactly what it was. It was insane doing the same things over and over again, expecting different results. And I just did not get it, because it was insane.

Ty Spells

Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. Because, sometimes I think about even myself, when I’ve navigated feeling low, depressed, high anxiety. On the outside I look good, I look happy. I am doing well at work, I am smiling pretty with my friends. However, there is this isolation you feel in a room full of people. And we find ourselves doing that over, and over. And what I hear you saying is that you were doing that day in and day out, going through the motions, but the drugs were the only thing you thought could mask that pain that you were feeling inside. And we find ourselves doing that regardless if it is something as extreme as seeing your father being murdered, or us just feeling alone, or empty inside. Trying to figure out what does it look like to not just exist in this world, but thrive in this life? And from what I’ve heard, can you share just a little bit more about what is Thistle Farms? You’ve mentioned that they allowed you to come in, and rest. What is Thistle Farms, and what did that rest look like?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

So, I’m going to say this, I’m really trying to get anybody that happens to hear this to be a part of the circle. Thistle Farms is an absolutely amazing organization. This organization is a nonprofit organization, was founded in 1997 by Becca Stevens. Becca happens to be an episcopal priest, but Thistle Farms is not a religious organization. And I get it, because there are no strings attached. When you come into Thistle Farms as a survivor leader, when you come in as someone who’s really broken, you don’t need anyone to try to get you to believe this way. Or, “I’m going to take care of you if you can do this for me and learn this Bible verse.” So, it’s a non-religious organization. And Thistle Farms is a social enterprise, so we have a lot of different entities. At Thistle Farms there is a manufacturing facility where we make all these amazing bath and body products.

And I’m talking about lotions, and soaps, and candles. And then, not only do we want to help people in Nashville and the surrounding states of the United States, we wanted to help women around the world. So, we have a global initiative and the global initiative, we have products that Thistle Farms… We have this amazing bug spray that comes from the fields of Rwanda, Africa. They grow the geranium in the very fields where their ancestors died in the genocide. And they take these geranium plants, and they send us the geranium oil. And in our manufacturing facilities, we actually add lemon grass, spearmint, and peppermint. And you shake this thing up, and spread it on yourself. It repels fleas, mosquitoes, and ticks. And it’s totally natural. So, that’s the thing like that we do. Every product that we have has a story attached to it, we’re all about stories.

We’re all about taking that broken story, and turning it into something beautiful. So, Thistle Farms has the manufacturing facility, it has the global initiative. It has a cafe where the food is absolutely amazing. The sous-chef, the women that work there are survivors as well. So, we get our lives back, we do that and we have the administrative houses. But for me, the heart of Thistle Farms is that residential piece. In Nashville, we have seven houses where women can come off the street, and live free for two whole years. You see, I had tried to get cleaned by going into a 30-day program. What is 30 days going to do for me when I’ve been addicted the vast majority of my life? I would go to a 90-day halfway house, but they would charge $125 to $140 a week.

And at that time in my life nobody would hire me. So, I’d be clean from drugs, but go right back out, and trade myself as though I was some type of a commodity to pay my rent. And I’d feel so bad about myself, and I wouldn’t have the training to hold onto money without giving it to the dope man. I’d go right back and use, it was a vicious cycle. But at Thistle Farms, we have these beautiful houses where the women can live for two whole years. In two years’ time you have time enough to get a sponsor in NA, and AA or whatever. You have time to get your therapist, you hate your therapist, you fall in love with your therapist, and you have time to hate her again. So, you get to go through that whole cycle for the two year period. In two years you have time for life to show up in a bad way, but you learn how to maneuver through the badness of life, clean and sober.

So that two years is very instrumental, that two years is what we needed. So, in the two years, it’s free. And the thing that puzzled me about Thistle Farms at first, is that there was no authority living in the houses. I’m like, “Wait a minute, who’s going to watch me? Because, I could do some things.” I’m like, “Who’s going to watch me?” And then, I found out that there are some women that have different stories, where authority was not a good thing in their lives. The people that was supposed to love you in church, love you out of church, were the very folks who molested us. And the police officers, some were not the best, the judges, some… So, just different people showing up in your life that was your authority figure, was not treating you fairly. So, we removed authority out of the house and it was like each one teach one, this was my sanctuary.

This is the thing that I had waited for. “So, if you come in here, you better act right, because I’m going to tell it. If you want somebody to tell on you, tell Dorris.” So, we learned how early on to live, and become a community. And one thing I’ve learned about living in the community at Thistle Farms, when you’re in a community you don’t always get your way. And I’m like, “Don’t get my way?” But then, I learned that you have a right to show up, and shine today and I’m going to be your support. But then, I have that same right to show up, and shine today and I want you to be my support. So, we learned how to love on each other. And that was something that I had never in my life experienced, because on the street, the other women were my enemy. Because, we were trying to rush to that car to see who could get in to possibly lose our lives.

So, my thinking was so warped when I came into Thistle Farms. But, little by little they sent me to therapy, they sent me to the dentist. For those who didn’t finish school, they send you back to school, and it’s all an amazing gift. This is all a gift, they don’t charge us a dime. And the thing that really got me at Thistle Farm’s residential, is that they give us a stipend. So, when I came in 2009, I think the stipend was like $65 a week for no particular reason. Because, they already clothed us and they already housed us, and they already was feeding us. So, I used my stipend to go get my nails done, because on the street my hands were horrific. And I was always playing with paraphernalia, so my hands looked horrible. But, when they gave me that cash money and they didn’t ask for anything in return, it lifted my self-worth. Because, on the street every time somebody gave me money, I had to sell a piece of my soul.

So when someone said, “Just take this and go do something good for yourself,” I did it. So, it was just little nuggets of gold, I call them, that they dropped into my spirit at Thistle Farms. So, Thistle Farms is a nonprofit organization designed to help women like me. We have a warehouse where the manufacturing facility is. We have global partners, we have the residential piece, and we actually sell our products around the United States and out of the United States. We have a website at farms where it is absolutely amazing, you can shop online. We have all these things. And then, we have educational workshop days, where people can come from around the United States and spend a couple of days with us. And then, they go back to where they live and they open up the houses. So, we now have 505 beds around the United States. We now have 95 sister organizations. So, we are one of the largest movements of our kind, and it’s run by women. It’s amazing.

Ty Spells

I love how you said that, it’s like they embraced you, they brought you in. And you had done 30-day programs, you had done 90-day programs. You had been arrested and they were saying, “Oh, go do another program.” And that was a way for you to avoid any real time in that sense. What do you say, because what you’ve just described sounds like joy, sounds like love, sounds like peace, sounds like a warm embrace, right? What do you say to people that say, “Well, you were out there selling yourself. You made the choice to become an addict. Why would the turnaround be you being embraced, you being loved on?” What would you say to the person that says, “Well, we need to punish them first,” versus embrace them with the type of love that Thistle Farms does?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

I understand that. So, I have gone through the punishment. Every time I go into jail, I would be punished. Every time I got in a stranger’s car, I would be punished. But, I challenge folks to realize, if you see a woman on the street selling herself, ask yourself this question. What in the world was going on in her life for her to think that was even an option? So, no woman gets to the street just because… Nobody says, “Well, when I grow up I think I’ll be a hooker.” Nobody says that. It is the things that happen to us in life. And molestation, that’s bootcamp for hitting the streets. Being from foster home to foster home. When you’re molested in every foster home, that’s bootcamp for hitting the streets. So, if you see a woman or a man on the street selling themselves, I challenge you to ask yourself the question, what were their choices?

What happened in life that made them think that’s what they had to do? So, my being on the street wasn’t because I wanted to, it was the manifestation of the trauma that happened to me as a child. Every woman that walks into our room has a story that would bring you to your knees, and it’s a story that turns into good. So, I think that was some of the things. The reason Thistle Farms loves us on us instead of locking us up, but loves on us, is like you can draw more sugary flies, that’s how old I am. You can draw more sugary flies than with vinegar. So, if you’re sitting in a dark room, and the door barely opens and there’s just a tiny bit of light, that light comes in and illuminates the room. So, Thistle Farms is that light. In our community, when the dope dealers walk by Thistle Farms, they’re like, “Be quiet.”

And they used to tell me that when I was on the street. And I’m like, “Why? What do I got to… Because, that’s not a church.” But, it was a sanctuary, it was the place they should have said, “Go there.” But, instead they wanted me not to disrespect that house. So, Thistle Farms is the light. And so, they love on someone, because we’ve already paid our dues, believe me. Anytime I had to walk away from my children—and my mom raised my children, because I wasn’t there to raise them—that was my punishment. Anytime I got in a car with someone, and I decided I didn’t want to be there and I said, “No.” And I was raped countless numbers of times, and taken against my will, that was my punishment. So you never have to worry about whether we need to be punished or not, because it’s already happened. It’s already happening, we’ve been punished. So now, please just let us come back in and love on us until we can love ourselves.

Ty Spells

Oh, I love that. Yes. The analogy you’ve shared when you said, “That love or that light that Thistle Farms offers is just amazing.” It makes me think, when you paint the picture of being in a dark, dark room. And when a door is just cracked a little, and it’s just a slither of light. You ever notice when you’re wandering around?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Yes.

Ty Spells

That’s the very thing that gives you the direction on where you should be going if you’re trying to exit.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

I should be, “Oh, look at the light.”

Ty Spells

Exactly.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

The insects follow the light.

Ty Spells

Follow the light. And it is like when you were in that darkness of addiction, and that darkness of prostitution, Thistle Farms gave you just a sliver of light. And that guided you on your path to know there was better purpose, and more self-worth on the other side.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Absolutely. Well said.

Ty Spells

I love that. Dorris, what was it like to, or what did it feel like to be living, but not feel alive?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

So, that has been part of my story for a long time, even before the drugs and the street came into play. Once my dad died, my mom was very protective, because she didn’t want anything to happen to yet another family member. So, I did not go to my junior or senior prom, because my options was to take my brother or my first cousin. And I’m like, “Okay, I’ll stay at home.” So, it was a really protective, really strict atmosphere. The atmosphere shifted from a loving home to a home where we got to live it down, you got to do the right thing. So, I wanted out. So, I got married at the age of 18 not knowing anything about life. I got married to a man, and the only resemblance to this man and my father, were that they both wore over duck bib overalls.

And they both smoked a pipe. And that’s where the similarity ended, because my father was a wonderful man of God. The man I married was an alcoholic, and I knew it. If I didn’t know it, you could look at his car, every fender was bent and dented. But, he worked for the railroad and I thought, “This is my ticket out.” So, I got married at the age of 18. And on the first day that I moved in, he disappeared because he was out drinking. So, I moved my own self into my apartment, and I was carrying one child, and I had my other child and I went into labor. And he was nowhere to be found. And they just set the setting for what kind of marriage this is going to be. He was abusive physically, he was abusive mentally and verbally.

And I think the verbal abuse was worse than the physical, because just every day being told that you’re nothing, and every day being put down. And then, “I’m sorry, I’ll never say that again” and I fall for it. And I fall back in love, and you do it again. But, I stuck with that lifestyle, because on the outside we looked really well. And I’m talking about, I came out of school in ’74 and I’m married by the time I’m out of high school. And The Cosby Show was a big deal. And all my friends would say, “Y’all remind me of the Cosbys.” Because we lived well, my husband worked for the railroad, I always dressed well, so therefore my kids dressed well.

But, it was a horrific situation. I would clean my house up, and he would come home in a drunken fit and everything would be thrown through the house. He never touched my children, and I was grateful for that. So, when he hit me I felt good, because he didn’t hit my children. So, that’s how crazy I was, but on the outside I looked so good. My daughter was in ballet, my son I sent to karate class. The neighborhood kids would get the ride in the cab with the drivers to take my kids to school. So, it looked like I had a good life. And that was the furthest thing from the truth. So, we can look like our lives are wonderful, when in all reality they are truly horrific.

I still have scars from then, physical scars. I have this bump in my nose that you can’t see, but I can feel it. And I remember what it’s from, an elbow to the face. And until this very moment, I don’t think I’ve ever portrayed part of my story at Thistle Farms, as someone who’s been abused in a relationship. I always talked about the addiction, but I went through abuse before the addiction ever hit. I worked for a company and before I woke my children up, I would smoke a joint just to shake off the pain. And after I dropped my kids off at daycare, I smoke another joint on the way to work just to feel better. And when I got in the parking lot at Whirlpool, I know they’re not going to hire me again. But, when I got in the parking lot, I smoke another joint. And I’d look in the mirror, and I would look beautiful on the outside.

And I would go in, and be like “Good morning.” And it was not a good morning. And all day long I would do my duties, and I would laugh, and I would smile and I would receive compliments on how well I look. But, it was all a mask and it was all so fake. So, if you cannot relate to the side of my story that talks about addiction, and putting myself in harm’s way, you can for sure relate to living life in America. White picket fence, wonderful children, beautiful husband, but in all reality it’s not. When the lights go out and nobody’s looking, the pain starts. So that’s, how I lived my life for a long time.

Ty Spells

What is life like now? What are you up to? What is life like?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

When I worked through a lot of stuff, and had about five years clean. And Thistle Farms is a two year program, so I was living in my own apartment. And I started going to the mall, and I started shopping, and doing the natural things everybody do. And everybody I saw was a couple. And I’m like, “I want to be a couple.”

Ty Spells

Don’t we all?

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Yes, I want to be a couple. So, I go out and I get in relationship with, okay, let’s just call him Freddie Kreuger. It was not good. This guy I met in the rooms of Narcotics Anonymous, and he was still in his addiction part of the time. But, I was so desperate for love that when he was at my house, it was like I couldn’t tell that his eyes was glassy because he was using. I thought he just looked at me like that, because he loved me. It was insane. But by the grace of God, I made it out of that horrific relationship with my sobriety intact. So, I went to God and I said, “Okay, God. My picker is broke, I don’t know how to pick a man. So, I need you to find me a man that’s really kind, that’s really gentle, that is really soft spoken.”

All the things that I did not receive in life or on the street. “And I want you to find me a man God, that loves you God more than he could ever love me. That way he’ll treat me like a princess.” So, on the day that my daddy died, my best friend was this little girl named Linda Taylor. And my brother’s best friend was Linda’s brother, who was a little skinny guy they called Jaybird. So on April the 8th, 2019, if I forget that day I’m in trouble. On April the 8th, 2019, I got married to Little Jaybird. So, my life is amazing now. He’s a wonderful man of God, he’s kind, he’s gentle. We live in a really large house on five acres, three doors from where all my trauma started. So, God has carried me full circle, and I am married to my best friend and he’s a really good guy.

And his name is James Taylor, he’s not the James Taylor because he can’t sing a lick. But, he’s my James Taylor, so I love this guy. So, I married Jaybird, and I have a beautiful house. I have a big front yard, and a big backyard. And my kids, my daughter and my grandchildren live five houses up the road. So, I’ve got them back in my life. So, all that stuff is really good for me. My son lives in Nashville, but we’re in constant contact. I love my baby. I have a beautiful daughter, and a handsome little big-eyed son. And I love my children, and they are part of my life now. So, now life is good for me. Life is so good that I wrote a book, and I became an author in April of this year. And the book is called, Hope is Always Real.

I never realized that there was hope in my life all the days of my life, because I was still alive. So in my book, it helps you to find hope in the midst of darkness. My book talks about how to harness the power of hope, and to endure hardships. My book also talks about how to share hope with people who are going through, just come up to someone and give them a hug and say a kind word. I discovered purpose in this season. So, not only am I now the senior ambassador at Thistle Farms for our community relations, I am now an author. I am now a wife, I am now a real mama. And I’m a grandmother, and they call me glam-ma.

Ty Spells

I know that’s right.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

They call me glam-ma. So, at the ripe old age of 66, I’m doing more living now than I ever dreamed I could. So, I’m happy in life now. I work at Thistle Farms part-time, and that’s due to the pandemic and I can’t do some of the things that I did. But now, I have my own website, dorriswalkertaylor.com. There is a page on my book that’s my contact page, and that’s part of my morning worship. So, what I’ve learned when I first came into the program is that every morning you’ve got to have a meditation. You’ve got to do something, whether it’s listening to music and dance, whether it’s reading a Bible verse, whatever it is. The thing that I do every day is open up my Bible, and read a verse and I read Jesus calling. And now that I’ve become an author, and I have an LLC company, I also add it into my morning ritual that I go to my contact page and I lay my hand up on that page. And let today be the day that someone runs across dorriswalkertaylor.com and invites me in to their space.

Wow, I’m here today! So, it happened today, because I’m here today. But, for someone to invite me into their space. So, I’m trying to do more than just work part-time, I want my life to be fuller. I want to travel, I want to speak, I want to do workshops. So, there’re other things in life now that I want to do on my own in addition to what I do for Thistle Farms. Thistle Farms will always be my foundation, I love Thistle Farms. And I have to say, I don’t work on a farm, it’s not a farm. Sometimes people will say, “Where’s the farm?” We call it Thistle Farms, because thistles are survival weeds and we’re survivors. Thistles grow through concrete, thistles will survive drought. And if you look at a thistle, the top of the thistle has a beautiful, glorious purple center. So, when we come in, we’re really prickly around the edges like thistle.

But, by that two years we bloom into something really beautiful. And there’s a verse in the Bible that talks about the thistle. And it says, “Solomon in all of his glory is not robed like one of these.” Thistles are beautiful, and we bloom into something really beautiful in life. So, I will always be an extension of Thistle Farms. I pray that I’ll always have a spot at Thistle Farms, but I want to move out and do more and get the word out. That love is the most powerful force for change in the world and also, hope is always real if we stand together.

Ty Spells

Dorris, it has truly been a pleasure to have this conversation with you, learn even more about your life. And I just want to share that you truly are a representation of light, love and hope. When I think about how you have overcome that darkness that was before. And when you walk into a room, you truly are light.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Thank you.

Ty Spells

You just are joy, you are hope, you are peace and that is so precious. And I want to say, we are so happy to stand with you in that. You just truly have light, and hope. And allow yourself to keep being that light every time when you walk into a room.

Dorris Walker-Taylor

Thank you.

Ty Spells

Listeners, thank you for your time and your vulnerability. To learn more about the work of Thistle Farms, visit thistlefarms.org.

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